Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Dusty's Recordings and Performances.

Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby DustyDanny » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:49 pm

Just thought I would warn people to avoid the recent re-release of Sometimes Like Butterflies which came out on Friday - the titular track has obviously been ripped from a YouTube upload (the mono audio and fade-outs give it away) and sounds horrible, and the B-side, I Wanna Control You, sounds like it was recorded from a cheap record player. To put it bluntly, avoid this release like the plague. Whoever was in charge of acquiring the source for this release needs sacking, it's disgusting Dusty's legacy is being treated this way. I actually thought they might have found the original master (which was lost) of Sometimes Like Butterflies and remastered it digitally, but obviously they'd rather resort to YouTube. :roll:
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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby wally » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:44 pm

Thanks for the warning!
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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby countrycake » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:53 pm

The download single has been issued by Angel Air Records, which has a good reputation as a re-issue label, so I am surprised to hear that the audio quality is so poor.

Universal created a digital version of the 7'' issue of SLB by dubbing from the vinyl version of the track and it was that that was used on the Classics and Collectibles CD. Varese Sarabande did the same thing to create digital versions of the 12'' issue of SLB and I Wanna Control You for their Heart and Soul CD.

I have listened to extracts on Angel Air's website via Apple Music, which sounded better than the Amazon extracts. I appreciate that doing comparisons of the CD and download versions via a laptop is not the optimum listening environment and what I have heard are only extracts, particularly since neither of the extracts contains the fade-outs Daniel refers to. That said, I did not find Angel Air's version of the 7'' mix of SLB of such poor quality, although I accept that I Wanna Control You is tinnier than the version issued on CD.

Daniel refers to the fact that both of the Angel Air tracks are in mono as evidence that they have been created from You Tube versions. I took the trouble this afternoon to listen to the CD versions of the three Hippodrome tracks on headphones and can advise that all three tracks on CD are in mono. That is not to say that the original vinyl issues were not stereo - the respective labels do not indicate which format was used.

Even if the vinyl issues were in stereo, the fact that the new digital versions were dubbed from vinyl might have meant that creating a new digital tape in mono might not have exposed the limitations of the source material to such an extent as a stereo version would have.
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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby smallworld » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:46 am

This video appears to have the original vinyl audio. I can't hear a mix difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C80qJFyQWs8

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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby DustyDanny » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:27 am

countrycake wrote:The download single has been issued by Angel Air Records, which has a good reputation as a re-issue label, so I am surprised to hear that the audio quality is so poor.

Universal created a digital version of the 7'' issue of SLB by dubbing from the vinyl version of the track and it was that that was used on the Classics and Collectibles CD. Varese Sarabande did the same thing to create digital versions of the 12'' issue of SLB and I Wanna Control You for their Heart and Soul CD.

I have listened to extracts on Angel Air's website via Apple Music, which sounded better than the Amazon extracts. I appreciate that doing comparisons of the CD and download versions via a laptop is not the optimum listening environment and what I have heard are only extracts, particularly since neither of the extracts contains the fade-outs Daniel refers to. That said, I did not find Angel Air's version of the 7'' mix of SLB of such poor quality, although I accept that I Wanna Control You is tinnier than the version issued on CD.

Daniel refers to the fact that both of the Angel Air tracks are in mono as evidence that they have been created from You Tube versions. I took the trouble this afternoon to listen to the CD versions of the three Hippodrome tracks on headphones and can advise that all three tracks on CD are in mono. That is not to say that the original vinyl issues were not stereo - the respective labels do not indicate which format was used.

Even if the vinyl issues were in stereo, the fact that the new digital versions were dubbed from vinyl might have meant that creating a new digital tape in mono might not have exposed the limitations of the source material to such an extent as a stereo version would have.


Just for the record (no pun intended) countrycake, the fadeouts are only present at the beginning and ending of SLB, both of which are not present in the previews presented on iTunes or Amazon.

I have an MP3 copy of the Sometimes Like Butterflies 12 inch myself, but have no idea where the original uploader got their source from. Regardless of source, the quality is good, with the three tracks playing in mono, and they don't appear to have been recorded from vinyl as I actually have the 7 inch release of SLB and they all have longer fade-outs than these MP3s.

Whilst the titular track from Angel Air's release is not the worst quality available, I can't understand how, instead of using their own version of the track, they couldn't just use the previously released version. It just seems odd how they would release the titular track in mono, and its B-side in stereo.

Here are my two uploads of Sometimes Like Butterflies and I Wanna Control You.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azzknWx7yz8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WiQhKmATvA
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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby Douggie » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:44 pm

And I will gladly share what happened with Cherry Red, considering this recent conduct:
I got in touch with Cherry Red in 2006 because they were pumping out way too many bad sounding products. During the correspondence I mentioned that I had been remastering for myself for years. They owned material by a band I liked called Artery, and when I inquired about it they asked if I'd like to master it. I said sure, and thus began my first release. They owned the masters so I got a CD-R transfer to work from for most of the tracks, some came from vinyl.

Over the next couple of years, I did over 15 reissues for Cherry Red. But here's the thing, they didn't want to pay to have original master tapes sourced. So since I was very good at remastering from vinyl, they asked me to use vinyl (or previously existing CD's) to "remaster" from. In one correspondence at the time that included Sony UK, Sony told CR they had the masters pulled and ready to transfer. CR replied telling me to just work from my vinyl collection. I figured the only way to ensure they would be a decent quality is to do them myself since I was a fan of the music (most releases were my suggestion), and I wanted to see them done the best possible from the sources. Most of this work was done free of charge. I would often just get merchandise in trade. Eventually there were a few small fees paid but it really amounted to pennies for the amount of work.

But the end came when working on the Balaam and the Angel reissues, which I was not a fan of but I was requested to do the work. The project manager was getting source material from the band in the form of CD-R's of the original CD's and 12" singles for bonus tracks. The band member was taking a while to get us the 12" singles so I offered to buy them on eBay if CR would reimburse me. But then they started beating into me that they had a deadline and they needed the mastering done ASAP, and flat out told me to skimp on restoration quality for the sake of meeting a deadline. I told them I will not have my name on a sub-standard product. Their response made me livid. They said to do it sub-par and just keep my name off the release. I was horrified that all the talk of improving the quality on their releases was completely disregarded for the sake of their lousy deadline. I flat out refused to accommodate such insulting suggestions. The CD's were mastered properly from the sources I had to use and they didn't make their stupid deadline, and the world kept spinning. But after all the free work I had provided, I told them that (for lack of a better term) that I resign from further projects. I did finish up a project I had already started and did one final project as a special request for another project manager who was also a friend of mine.

So that sums it up, not seeking out the proper source material, and even asking to rush it through without quality concerns. Yet they seem to hold controlling interest in the reissue market anywhere.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/starting-my-reissue-label-it-seems-to-finally-be-happening.681016/page-9#post-18352602
[/quote]

To the unknown source as quoted above!!!!!!!!


I think what you did for Cherry Red was actual illegal.
If you read any recording label it states:-

All Rights of the Manufacture and the Owner of the recorded work reserved.

Unauthorised Public Performance Broadcasting and Copying of this Record Prohibited.

So if you copied any recording, Single Play, Long Player, Extended Play, Compact Disc or DVD you broke the copyright Law even things that are on Youtube.
Unless the people at Cherry Red bought the original masters which sounds unlikely from what you wrote.
Or if this matter is taken to the PRS you could be in big trouble.
You together with Cherry Red could face a court battle that will not work out too good for both of you.
I have seen this kind of thing before.
You just can't take other peoples work and change it without the right to do so.
I believe that you can make a copy for your personal use only, but not to sell onto the public.
When you purchase a record, the money paid for that record is divided to pay those involved the making of the record depending on the % they are entitled to. The Shop selling the record, Record Company, Distribution Company, Publicity Company, Publishing Company, Song Writers, Producer, Arrangers, Musicians, Backup
Singers and the of course the main artist who ever it is. There are probably more people as well.
All to get their income from the cost of the record which may be 20 pound. Which doesn't go far among those
mentioned above when it is divided up. It is even worse if you are in a band as your artist fee is then divide again between the band members from three to maybe nine or ten members. Not all records sell 1,000,000
copies, actually not many sell at all.
Records and what they generate are part of some peoples income, by doing this you are in point of fact
stealing money that they may need to live on, no matter how small that amount may be.

Just thought I'd say.

<3 Dusty :thumbsup: :note:

Douggie
Last edited by Douggie on Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby DustyDanny » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:06 pm

I appreciate that this is a misunderstanding, but I can assure you I am no thief, and believe very strongly about musicians being paid. I would never take profit from someone else's work. Uploading music to YouTube itself is quite sketchy, and so I will always agree to take down content if the respective owners don't want it available on my channel. If you were indeed referring to the person who posted about Cherry Red, Douggie, then I am not the same person.
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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby humboldt » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:13 pm

One of Dusty's worst recordings which IMHO is best forgotten!
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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby Douggie » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:45 am

DustyDanny wrote:I appreciate that this is a misunderstanding, but I can assure you I am no thief, and believe very strongly about musicians being paid. I would never take profit from someone else's work. Uploading music to YouTube itself is quite sketchy, and so I will always agree to take down content if the respective owners don't want it available on my channel. If you were indeed referring to the person who posted about Cherry Red, Douggie, then I am not the same person.


Hi DustyDanny.

I must have got the wrong end of the stick with this topic. On reading this subject I read the quotes that were given to be from the same person as your name was on the first quote and nothing on the second quote. It was the second quote that all my comments were about. I sincerely apologize for my mistake and reference to you. I will remove any suggestions to yourself, however I will edit my post. I will leave the post up without any reference to you by removing your quote from my reply.

Please except my apologizes.

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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby DustyDanny » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:04 am

Thanks Douggie, I can see how you might have thought it was me from what smallword wrote. [:)]

On a different note, I should say it's a great pleasure getting to talk to someone who worked alongside Dusty.
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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby Douggie » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:03 pm

Hi DustyDanny

Thank you for your acceptance. That time was an unforgettable part of my career.
The time I spent with Dusty was invaluable to not only my career but also my life.
I was in the right place at the right time and fortunately we got along so well together,
we both thought very much the same way about things and music. I was also able to
have many other highlights, however that time was a great time for me. I suppose that
being in the business for a very long time makes you very aware of some of the downsides
to the business with all the lies and little tricks that people get up to. You learn pretty quick
not to trust all of what some people say and promise. If I had all the things promised to me I
would be more well known and a lot richer than I am but not as rich as The Beatles.
But money is not what it is about, you live with what you have... and lots of great memories!!

Cheers
<3 Dusty :thumbsup: :note:

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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby countrycake » Sat May 05, 2018 8:24 pm

Following on from the earlier release referred to above, Angel Air released the extended version of Sometimes Like Butterflies as a download yesterday (4 May). This info comes from Amazon UK. However, Angel Air's own website does not have any info about this yet.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07CPTG9QN/ref=sr_1_4_rd?_encoding=UTF8&child=B07CPQH271&qid=1525551094&sr=1-4%3C/a%3E
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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby DustyDanny » Mon May 07, 2018 6:47 pm

I noticed, countrycake, and was actually gonna post it in here myself. They seem to be using a proper source this time, although I have an inkling it may have come from my upload. No hard feelings though, at least it sounds better than the previous release!
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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby JMFabianoRPL » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:23 pm

DustyDanny wrote:Just thought I would warn people to avoid the recent re-release of Sometimes Like Butterflies which came out on Friday - the titular track has obviously been ripped from a YouTube upload (the mono audio and fade-outs give it away) and sounds horrible, and the B-side, I Wanna Control You, sounds like it was recorded from a cheap record player. To put it bluntly, avoid this release like the plague. Whoever was in charge of acquiring the source for this release needs sacking, it's disgusting Dusty's legacy is being treated this way. I actually thought they might have found the original master (which was lost) of Sometimes Like Butterflies and remastered it digitally, but obviously they'd rather resort to YouTube. :roll:


Sounds like a "tribute" to the hard time Dusty was given when doing said recording!
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Re: Sometimes Like Butterflies Re-release

Postby Cardiff Bluesgirl » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:03 am

Not her finest hour ,sad to say. A bad time in her life and an ill advised link up to the stringfellow set up and that sad club appearance. [:(]
"every day I find you're in my heart and on my mind"

"she was the very essence of fabness""

" its nice to rest for awhile thank you "

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